tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2339646220153814400.post7694479945974065467..comments2023-12-31T01:02:49.340-05:00Comments on FOR BASEBALL JUNKIES: Hall of Fame Debate - Fred McGriff@OCP22http://www.blogger.com/profile/06983828112048757251noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2339646220153814400.post-68259996959657082202011-12-23T11:06:14.550-05:002011-12-23T11:06:14.550-05:00Thanks for the comment, Anonymous.
I think the po...Thanks for the comment, Anonymous.<br /><br />I think the point I was trying to make with McGriff and Carter was that people don't associate the early 90's Blue Jays with Fred McGriff. They remember those teams because of Joe Carter and George Bell and a lot of other players. They don't associate the Braves of the 90's with Fred McGriff... McGriff was an important part of every team he played for but he was always third man on the totem pole. Right or wrong, he was overshadowed. <br /><br />I think that a player's career is sort of defined by how he is treated in his final years... his swan song. If he retires and no one knows, the media pundits have no story... his legacy is never truly defined. It sounds stupid but you have to go out with a bang otherwise no one remembers how good you were. For a guy like McGriff, who never really settled in anywhere, it's tough to ride off into the sunset as the hero. Are there less deserving players in the Hall of Fame? Absolutely... if I had a vote, I would have to do some serious soul searching. Generally, I think that the Hall of Fame has been watered down a bit over the years. Does Fred McGriff fall into that category? And is it a bad thing that the Hall has become watered down? There has always been this preconceived notion that there is a "Hall Within the Hall," for first ballot entries... a guy like Fred McGriff certainly doesn't make the grade at that level but as Tom mentioned, all of the players with more HR than McGriff fall into one of three categories: in the Hall, tainted by the stigma of PED's or not yet eligible. Same is virtually true for his RBI total (1550). This debate is about as close as it gets.@OCP22https://www.blogger.com/profile/06983828112048757251noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2339646220153814400.post-57728908533676776012011-12-22T19:59:57.794-05:002011-12-22T19:59:57.794-05:00To clear up an error in the "con" argume...To clear up an error in the "con" argument, McGriff and Carter weren't teammates--they were actually traded for each other (McGriff to SD, Carter to TOR). And I don't think it's fair to say he was ever overshadowed by Kelly Gruber. McGriff was the star of those Blue Jay teams from '88 to '90; it's just that he was so young that a guy like George Bell had more name recognition. Compare McGriff's OPS from '88-'90 to Bell's or Gruber's. No contest. Imagine what the Padres' GM would have said if the Blue Jays had offered Tony Fernandez and either Kelly Gruber or George Bell for Joe Carter and Roberto Alomar. People who knew baseball knew how special McGriff was, even if it took fans a while to catch up. Was he sometimes outshined on a team by another player? Yes, but there were so many "fluke" offensive stars in the '90s--guys who looked like future Hall-of-Famers for a few years but then faded away. The era was littered with guys who burned like a rocket for a while and then tapered off quickly --and of course a lot of this has to do with the prevalence of performance enhancing drugs. Fred maximized his NATURAL talent over a long span and helped his team win the best he could. <br /><br />The steroid era has desensitized us to stats. There was a time when 493 home runs was eye-popping. Like, you'd look at Lou Gehrig's 493 or Stan Musial's 475 in their career stats and say, "Wow." Now we yawn, because we're so accustomed to hearing how such-and-such has just hit his 500th or even 600th. And you hardly even react. If Sosa had discovered a mega-steroid that would have allowed him to reach 1000 career home runs, a typical reaction might have been: "Hmmm, a thousand, that's a lot. But his home run total was down from 94 last year to just 57 this year, so he sort of limped his way past the 1000 threshold." I'm exaggerating, but that's how the steroid era has tainted our perception of home run totals and what constitutes an impressive statistical feat. <br /><br />493 CLEAN home runs--with a .284 career average and over 1500 RBI--should get you in the Hall. Period.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2339646220153814400.post-59981718855310592602011-06-10T15:32:18.633-04:002011-06-10T15:32:18.633-04:00I think Crime Dog's career compares closely to...I think Crime Dog's career compares closely to Tony Perez. Never the best player on his team or in the league. Not great defensively, but always known as a clutch hitter. My one knock against him is he was traded a lot. Not a sign of a great player. I could never figure out why he was traded so much. Power hitting first baseman who are left-handed are always a hot commodity. I always liked McGriff and you guys made good arguments both ways, but I say he was not a hall of famer, but I think he eventually gets in.hershhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07095348599514214434noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2339646220153814400.post-85580372878491522412011-06-08T17:53:32.501-04:002011-06-08T17:53:32.501-04:00One area where McGriff also gets overlooked is his...One area where McGriff also gets overlooked is his position. With his numbers, as say a 2B or 3B, he'd be a lock Hall of Famer. <br /><br />I hear what you're saying about him not being dominant, and that's why he's on the fence. He was also not a great defensive 1B. To me, though, I feel like he had some of the intangibles that Jim Rice had. People feared McGriff and what he could do, there was an intimidation about him. <br /><br />What does everyone else think? Weigh in with your comments about Crime Dog's legitimacy.Mchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01834032474182586162noreply@blogger.com